Well, DWADs have put up BC's audio reviews for Countdown to Armageddon to Empire of the Daleks (the rest will most likely follow in due course, as doing all the formatting clearly takes days for them to do), and have curiously censored the following words:
"Jesus" "Christ" "God" "Hell" "Bloody" "Arse" "Ass" "Damn" and "Bastard".
But not "crap".
But what do those disturbed individuals behind the DWADs think of these reviews?
Well, judging from the open-access opinion forum, they're stunned into silence at the fact any sane person would dare criticize ANYTHING beyond the long wait between stories. The thread is named "Bad reviews???" with so many question marks, it sounds like an outraged Lady Bracknell. How dare ANYONE contradict them?!
First off in the thread, indeed the thread starter, is a dude who calls himself The Supreme Dalek, refers to himself in the third person and frequently acts like a Dalek. Not even Nick Briggs is that far gone...
"I noticed a lot of bad reviews appearing lately in the Review section of the DWAD website. And they're all from the same dude. Does he have a problem or something? I admit I didn't like Apollyon but Price of Paradise was GREAT! He certainly hates Dara. What's up with him?"
Ben Chatham says: Bad reviews? BAD reviews?! BAD?!? They're negative, yes, and not the mindless adoration spewed out from people with no concept of worth! TPOP sucked and the reasons I thought so were laid within - along with a rebuttal from the guide. What's up with me? Your lack of perception, that's what up with me, mofo.
Replying is a guy called James who is dubbed The Chimera Virus:
"Well, he's a cussing, stark-raving, oddly disturbing man who makes a point in the rudest way humanly possible. He makes a good point with some things, but mainly he's just looking for an excuse to b*tch about your guys' stories. Dara really doesn't sound that convincing of a teen."
Ben Chatham says: Cussing?! That's a completely false impression given by editorial bias. Stark-raving? YOU COME OVER HERE AND SAY THAT, I'LL SUCK THE MARROW FROM YOUR BONES! Oddly disturbing? Dunno where that came from. "Looking for an excuse to bitch", that's me. PITY YOU KEEP GIVING ME EXCUSES, HUH?
The Supreme Dalek shows off his staunch support of the DWADS and his horror at my reviews by... drifting completely off topic:
"I always thought Dara was fun. I liked her more than Christine and Moira."
Ben Chatham says: I give up. You're all beyond help.
The Chimera Virus scoffs some more tranquilizers before adding:
"I love Moira! She's just so... REFRESHING!!! She's a good match for the Doctor! Balancing out per se... Christine was OK, but she got a bit boring with all this ancient speak to the point it was very annoying. Your fee's up to 4 cents."
Ben Chatham says: Yes, Moira is the first decent female companion I've heard. Does this ruin my reputation as a woman-hating psycho? Please say it ain't so, coach! SAY IT AIN'T SO!
A newcomer Captain Patch arrives and shows the truly disturbing nature of the DWADs that these people, seemingly logical, reasonable, intelligent people who at first glance appear perfectly normal and sensible, are just as indoctrinated as the more openly loony members of the cult. Er, fanbase.
"About Mr. Chatham's reviews:
- He has an amazingly encyclopedic knowledge of things Dr. Who. To be able to recognize the sources of bits of incidental music, and to recall cliffhangers from the TV series and to relate them to those in the DWADs is really impressive.
- He clearly puts a lot of time and energy into his reviews. And he does make some interesting points. At least we don't have to ask him to clarify his opinions.
- I admit I don't understand *why* he puts so much time into his reviews. I'd venture to say he doesn't think highly of the DWADs, in general. I think they're just about the best thing since sliced bread, but my goodness, I have to admit, if I had enough time on my hands to write reviews as long and in-depth as he does, well, I'd probably use it for something else.
- I wish he'd be a little more considerate of the language he uses, and much less personal in some of his criticisms. It's fine to express one's opinion strongly, but there's a line beyond which you're just being mean. And he crosses that line, IMHO, with some regularity.
- What's he got against Chip, anyway? I mean, did Chip insult his dog or something? I think it's fair to say that Chip's voice is very recognizable, and he doesn't have the range that some other past and present actors working with the DWADs have; but I thought he was good and honestly, I miss his voice, along with several others that we haven't heard in some time.
- I think it says an amazing amount about Lighthope and the DWADs, that they'd post such negative reviews on their own site. Mr. Chatham's reviews are certainly coming from a different perspective than most of the other posted reviews, and one can hope that the DWAD cast and crew can use his insight to improve their show. Though I hope they do understand that, as they're already practically perfect in every way, they needn't change much.....
Regarding companions:
I tend to like whichever Doctor and companion I'm listening to at the moment...if you put a gun to my head and forced me to pick a favorite, I'd probably do a cool ninja move to disarm you. Hey, it's my post. I like both Dara and Christine, though I'll admit that both took a few stories before I really appreciated their characters. Moira, I liked from the start, but she's only had one story as solo companion, so it's going to take a few more stories before I can completely judge her character."
Ben Chatham says: you're the scariest of them all because you ALMOST make sense. Yes, I have time on my hands; yes, lighthope is either being an idiot or totally open-minded; if the DWADs are SOOO good, why don't more people review them; my issue with Chip is that he is a crap actor and these are my reviews; and what? None of you noticed how the sound effects, music and cliffhangers were being recycled? Have you ever actually WATCHED Doctor Who?
Captain Patch replies:
Why don't more people review them?
I think their absolute goodness is very intimidating to most potential reviewers.
Ben Chatham says: Superiority Complex Audio Dramas and their fans, ladies and gentlemen.
Captain Patch replies:
My issue with Chip is that he is a crap actor and these are my reviews
Sure, freedom of speech and all that; but Chip seems to have been singled out disproportionately.
Ben Chatham says: it is in total proportion to his acting. When he didn't suck (Backbone of the Night, parts of Radio 2000), I give him due credit.
Captain Patch replies:
None of you noticed how the sound effects, music and cliffhangers were being recycled? Have you ever actually WATCHED Doctor Who?
Yes to both. The music and sound effect reuse totally does not bother me. I can see, though, how that might be a bother to someone who was more aware of those aspects of the production.
Ben Chatham says: as you're the ONLY fan only group still using stock music rather than self-composed, the very least you can do is use appropriate music that doesn't clash with itself - Countdown to Armageddon, for example. Three episodes of above-decent music mix of Paddy Kingsland, then a random slab of Season 21. Ruins it all.
And finally:
A request...I am unapologetically a big fan of the DWADs (the one who "at first glance appear[ed] perfectly normal and sensible, but who turned out to be the scariest of them all! :-) ). I'd like to note that I'm *not* associated with the group in any official capacity; I'm just a fan. In a couple of your reviews, you've included some of my comments as "The Party Line", which I think is a little misleading, as it implies an official relationship with the group that doesn't exist. I have no problem being quoted (flattered, actually) but I'd appreciate it if you'd either change the title of the section or otherwise note that my comments represent only myself.
Ben Chatham says: The Party Line is as it implies, taken from the horse's mouth - the Official DWAD handbooks, ostensibly written by Charles Danbee (D Segal and J Coburn editions). Critiquing anything else would defeat the whole point of the reviews.
Where was I? Oh yes.
Will opinion be divided now the (extremely positive) review of The Backbone of Night is up on their site? Will they even bother to read it? Will Lighthope itself descend to the thread to explain why the reviews are up, why there are so many asterixes (after all, that's DEFINITELY his fault) and point these baffled and bewildered buffoons in the basic direction Ben's belated blog? (answered that one)
Further news as events warrant.
...
So don't expect much.
UPDATE: How wrong I was! How WRONG I was! It seems that by the blind intervention of an angry God, it's time for "Ben Chatham" to get the "YOA treatment of unfair analysis and criticism"! I am on the recieving end! OH GLORIUS EVIL!! FROM HELL'S DARK HEART I STAB AT THEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
BEN CHATHAM'S EMPIRE OF THE DALEKS REVIEW by The Supreme Dalek
Okay, I am getting a little tired of this persons reviews. I know everyone has their own opinion, but these aren't reviews, they're just excuses to bash the program. Since he's so thorough at dissecting Doctor Who, let's deconstruct his review and see if it is actually worth paying any attention to.
Mark finally has enough of this crap and shacks up with a bimbo.
Gee, it only took five sentences for him to start off with the trash talk. It would be one thing if Serena was actually a bimbo, but her character wasn't anything that could even resemble that.
BC says: it's called humor. And "trash talk"? What are you? A southern baptist or something?
The producers of the DWADs were of the firm opinion that Doctor Who had gone to dogs when JNT took over, in regards to the ‘weakening’ the Master and the Daleks.
Actually, a lot of people were of that opinion. The DWADs weren't exactly alone in that regard.
BC says: actually, they were for reasons outlined in the article. Besides, is there anything in that sentence that is inaccurate? Or offensive? No, bitch. They weren't.
Anyone who has seen Remembrance of the Daleks will remember it featured flying Daleks tackling a whole army single handed
And anyone who has seen Remembrance of the Daleks will also remember Daleks being destroyed by simple bullets and a baseball bat! (Admittedly a baseball bat affected by the Hand of Omega.) And who could forget that wonderfully ridiculous scene where a Dalek destroys itself by simply being talked to death?! Yeah, those were really powerful Daleks! Ooh, I'm scared.
BC says: "simple bullets"? What part of "anti-tank rockets aimed at the weakest point of Daleks as established by Terry Nation itself" don't you get, brain donor? And since you admitted you were being a pratt about complaining about the baseball bat, we're left with a Dalek going nuts when it realizes it has lost and is the last of its kind. I also note that Daleks in Empire blew themselves up simply because they let the Doctor win!
Rather than using their own nuclear strength, they fire asteroids at Earth (a tactic made famous in Babylon Five)
Actually, IIRC, that was made famous by Starblazers. It was also a theme used in Without Warning and Frontios.
BC says: oh no! That means my entire argument is pointless! Woe is me!
which simply leaves the planet rendered a cold rubble-filled rock full of embittered humans – and making any mineral resources far harder to exploit.
Nuking a planet has the unfortunate effect of wiping out the population. If you want some slave labor, an asteroid attack seems like a reasonable weapon to deploy.
BC says: except they don't want slave labor, dumbass.
They are shown to be lazy rather than cunning (hoping the Doctor will unite the human survivors for them to exterminate)
I have no idea what he is talking about here.
BC says: it show, baby, it shows.
slow on the uptake (having to interrogate prisoners to confirm patently obvious facts)
I didn't come across with that impression.
BC says: what? They find a guy in a UNIT uniform and interrogate him to find out if he's from UNIT! How dumb is that?
and prone to panicking
Daleks have always done this.
BC says: what, in those rubbish JNT stories you despise? How then does Empire improve them?
They also are destroyed with ease
When?
BC says: WHEN? Have you actually LISTENED to the thing? When Mark shoots one with a hand-phase and it explodes for a start...
Coupled with the poor dialogue, terrible voices and models, this story arguably weakens the Daleks more than the JNT era ever could.
Sometimes you have to wonder if he even listened to the same story everyone else did.
BC says: seriously, that would explain a lot. But also the fact you're a bunch of zealots with pronoid delusions.
The plot itself is not particularly original – the Daleks conquering Earth was done before in The Dalek Invasion of Earth
And a hundred thousand other stories. What I liked is that they had conquered MODERN DAY Earth. That was a great twist!
BC says: a twist? You mean the twist stolen from Day of the Daleks?
The idea that UNIT survived the destruction of humanity is ludicrous, unless they used their know-how to escape the massacre
That seems imminently logical actually. There are always military survivors during a war.
BC says: so UNIT saved their own asses rather than say, protecting the Earth?
There are some redeeming features – with Mark’s romance with Serena being surprisingly credible,
I did enjoy the romance. It certainly was something that is unexpected from someone like Mark Triyad.
BC says: so what's the problem? Why single that out when you agree with it?
This story’s strengths are smothered by the roll call of anniversary elements (Daleks, UNIT, Mark’s departure) and ultimately all it does is cancel out Skaro’s destruction in Remembrance of the Daleks.
My understanding is that it wiped out Dalek history from 1996 onward.
BC says: and that means WHAT? Apart from suggestion that most of the TV series isn't canon any more, does this do any good? Do we see any of this
[Dara goes] into denial, insisting she’d have been better off staying with her friends and family (oh, if ONLY!)
He's got some grudge against every female companion in the series. He hates both Dara and Christine. I wonder what he thinks of Moira.
BC says: I like her actually, n00b.... hang on, what makes you think I hate Christine, none of my reviews of her are up yet!
The Daleks can’t even pronounce “Exterminate” properly.
I guess English must not be Ben Chatham's first language.
BC says: Ooh, deep. I mean, writing all that shows that English isn't my second language.
And the cast can’t pronounce “Daleks” properly
Huh?!
BC says: It's DAR-LEX not DAYL-EX! Do you WATCH any TV episodes, or just blot out the screams of your parents' despair with endless DWAD tapes?
The idea that an asteroid strike could wipe out all but a handful of humans that just happen to be UNIT troops who just happen to know all about the Doctor and just happen to be able to cover his escape as he learns all the info they just happen to have... This is so unlikely it’s starting to sting.
Who said UNIT were the only survivors? They were the only ones the story delt with because they wanted to use a traditional Doctor Who Good Guy. Seeing the usual cleancut UNIT reduced to the shocking state they were in was a very good idea. It wouldn't nearly have had the same effect if it were just a bunch of Joes they picked up off the street.
BC says: Cleancut? Chrichton shouts a bit. You call that "shocking"? What colour is the sky in your world? Besides, Serena's story is far more effective than a bunch of soldiers with bullseyes on their faces. "Traditional Good Guy"? My reasons for dismissing Chrichton are the same as under Dark Dreams - he's a one-joke character from The Five Doctors, not someone to seriously carry on UNIT. Why didn't you go for Bambera, huh?
Why do the Daleks keep offering the Doctor a chance to surrender? Why not just kill him?
Drama? Why doesn't any enemy of the Doctor's just lock him in front of a gun that goes off every ten minutes to wipe out all of his regenerations? Besides, didn't they need the Doctor for something?
BC says: "Drama?" THAT is the best you can do? As I noted, dumbo, they DIDN'T need the Doctor. The whole story is about them conquering time, so they THEN ask the Doctor to have exclusive access to their machinery for no reason? Christ, wake up!
So, a convicted murderer, rapist and pedophile spends three minutes with the Doctor and suddenly sacrifices himself to protect the schoolgirl he would have, in another history, raped without a thought? Since he dies without affecting the plot, why is he in the second half at all?!?
Sometimes the things this guy says are so stupid you just want to bang your head against a wall.
BC says: Took the words out of my mouth.
It's called DRAMA!
BC says: It's called MINDLESS SENSATIONALISM WITH AN UNCONTROLLABLE GOD COMPLEX!
The past Supreme Dalek orders its future self to commit suicide for failing to stop the Doctor... why not blow itself up in the present and prevent that failure from happening?
Um...because if he blows himself up then they can't conquer the Earth. Duh! (See, you can see this stupidity is really starting to irritate me.)
BC says: My point is, moron, the Dalek kills itself for a failure that's not going to happen in the past. Why? If you're going to be that stupid, blow yourself up now, have a competent commander take over and stop the failure!
Sickeningly arrogant, that summary would be ludicrous even if Empire of the Daleks was actually any good.
I will admit that his personal opinion is his personal opinion and if he is bound and determined to hate it, then that is his pergoative. But at least have some VALID reasons to hate it and not just made up, ignorant nonsense.
BC says: It's too late for you. They've brainwashed you. At least I gave reasons to hate it. You give nothing to like it.
Big Finish would laugh themselves to death if they heard both the story AND the party line.
Big Finish WISHES they could write stuff this good.
BC says: AHAHAHAHAHA! Haha! Ha! Oh, hahahahaha! AHAhhaha! HAHAh! Oh, no, please, stop, don't... AHAHAHAH! HAHAHA! HA! HA! HA! BWAHAHAHAHAH! Oh, that's priceless! A bunch of talentless American snobs with zero relevance say a derivate piece of crap (BOTH of whose writers quit soon after) up against an internationally successful business winning plaudits from professional reviewers! MY RIBS! OH, MAN! OHAHAHAHAHAHA! Spara, your ravings are oh-so-reasonable! HAHAHAHAH! OHHAHHAHHA! CAN'T BREATHE! CANNOT BREEATHE! HAHAHAHAHAHA! BASTARDS... TRY TO KILL ME! OH! CLASSIC! HAHAHA! Hahahahahaha! Ha! HA!!!! HAHAHHhahahahahahahah! Ah...
I'm sorry, but I just don't take this guy seriously. I'm not going to get all bent out of shape like that other thread and demand that Mr. Chatham write better stuff if he thinks he knows so much. But at least have some intelligence behind your opinions and not just mindless, zero-thought bashing.
BC says: That review had more work put into it than any other one - and somehow, a guy who refers to himself in the third person as a fictional alien robot commander I find hard to take seriously. I don't like it, I said why I don't like it, and I kinda hoped for a clue for why the DWADs think they're so good. I can only assume you lot don't get out much. If at ALL.
The Supreme Dalek
BC says: HAHAH! Oh, he's set me off again!
Oh, man. Someone should post this on OG to see how many die from a Monty Python style "funniest joke in the world" type chaos!
Please, DWADers! Respond! Agree! I haven't laughed so much since Dylan Moran's Monster!
UPDATE: And they have...
The Chimera Virus only took three days to come up with this truly Wildean reposit:
"I haven't actually heard Empire but just from reading this I know I'm going to start listening to it after posting this. BTW, Ben Chatham, if you're reading this, go f*ck yourself you turd. Colorful language supplied by-James' Colorful Language Warehouse! Remember, if it's not James', it's not colorful!"
Ben Chatham says: Wow. Slag me off for criticizing something you haven't even bothered to listen to. My life suddenly has no meaning.
At this point Lighthope himself intervenes and... and...
"No personal attacks please. Everyone is entitled to their opinion."
This prompts a true Rob Shearman character assassination from The Chimera Virus:
"Sorry, but that's how I feel! But seriously, sorry about posting it. I'm in the middle of thinking up a good summary for this one story I'm thinking of submitting and deciding between two titles for it.What do you think? Collision Course or Galactic Collision Course?"
Ben Chatham says: Oh, no, start waffling about yourself, there's only a whole section of the forum created for you to do that, but clog up MY thread with your vacuous emissions. Which title I prefer? You mean, there's a difference?
Captain Patch dives into the fray:
"The former. Crisper. IMHO"
Ben Chatham says: et tu, CP? I suppose saying that Big Finish thought that title was crap and never used it for Spare Parts isn't worth mentioning in this convo?
The Chimera Virus fights back with:
"Crisper? What does crisper mean in that context?"
Ben Chatham says: well, I'd tell you but apparently English isn't my first language. WHAT DO YOU BLOODY RECKON IT MEANS?!
Caption Patch patiently explains himself to the idiot with:
"Sorry for the confusion. It means...more punch, more sleekness, more energy. "Collision Course"...nice alliteration, very "active". Putting the "Galactic" in front of it just doesn't have the same "oomph" to it. And no, I can't define "oomph" I'd be interesting in what actual writers have to say about this..."
Ben Chatham says: dude, you need new friends.
Some dude who might be a writer called drewshi chips in with:
"I'd have to see how the title works in the context of the story, but Collision Course does sound better."
Ben Chatham says: and so the DWADs forget that their quality was ever questioned. The denial continues.
At this point, a strangely intelligent and wise being known as Miles "Balls of Steel" Reid brings sanity to the world:
"Hey, everyone has the right to their own opinion. Why attack him because his views on the story differ from yours?
Also, a few statements for the 'Supreme Dalek'
1- Why is the Daleks invading Modern-Day Earth such a twist? It is a series about time travel (and seeing how advanced London apparantly wasn't in 'Dalek Invasion of the Earth', it pretty much has been done.) and such things have the potential to happen.
2- Does his use of Babylon 5 as making 'Asteroid Strikes famous' actually matter? I mean, honestly, the truth is that more people who will listen to Empire of the Daleks' will think 'Babylon 5' than the first season of 'Space Battleship Yamato' considering that Star Blazers/Space Battleship Yamato is really only well known to the hardcore or Old School Anime Fans. Anyway, the Devastation of Narn is a fantastic scene.
3- Having read Mr.Chatham's reviews in their original form and spoken to him about them. I know that a lot of the language censored from the reviews available on the site is incredibly minor and to be honest, had no point to be censored. I mean, blanking out 'hell' and 'damn'... it's kinda silly, really.
4- Also, why use this story to bring back Skaro? Why bring back Skaro? Just because it turned up in the opening credits of the TVM and had been destroyed in the last Dalek story of the classic season... which is a series about Time travel and could just easily have been Skaro before its destruction. Is erasing Dalek history from 1996 onwards really worthwhile? I mean, are we talking in terms of 'Dalek stories released after 1996' in the real world (like Big Finish CDs, BBC Books and DWM comic strips) or in the Universe of Doctor Who... which would actually render all Dalek stories erased if you think about it."
Ben Chatham says: nuff said.
The Supreme Dalek however is having none of this:
If I can respond...
Why is the Daleks invading Modern-Day Earth such a twist? It is a series about time travel (and seeing how advanced London apparantly wasn't in 'Dalek Invasion of the Earth', it pretty much has been done.) and such things have the potential to happen.
I never saw Dalek Invasion of Earth so I can't really appreciate the connection. I just felt it was a nice twist that, rather than some future Earth being changed, it was essentially MY Earth. That I could look out my window and suddenly see Daleks rolling down the street.
Ben Chatham says: OK. So you believe that Empire of the Daleks is perfect because it rips off a story you haven't seen. And a movie you haven't seen. And, I've listened to Empire, there's no "Daleks in suburbia" just "Daleks in bombed out ruins" which could be any story... You freak.
Does his use of Babylon 5 as making 'Asteroid Strikes famous' actually matter? I mean, honestly, the truth is that more people who will listen to Empire of the Daleks' will think 'Babylon 5' than the first season of 'Space Battleship Yamato' considering that Star Blazers/Space Battleship Yamato is really only well known to the hardcore or Old School Anime Fans.
It doesn't matter except that he makes it a big deal.
Ben Chatham says: Actually that was one of the few moments in the review I was being unbiased. I mean, a Doctor Who story ripping some other show/film/book off? Could I criticize that and sleep at night?
He goes to great (and sometimes encyclopedic) lengths to say "this was done in such and such Doctor Who episode", clearly pointing out how unworthy the DWADs are because they are unoriginal when in fact DW itself is unoriginal.
Ben Chatham says: The point I was making was that Empire was not a good story, because the one decent-non-Who rip off it used makes no sense. They want Earth's minerals. They want slaves. So they take the one method that makes getting both incredibly difficult. It's a stupid plan. The DWADs are unworthy of saying EOTD is the best thing ever. Look, is there someone who looks after you I can talk to? Someone with a brain?
Is erasing Dalek history from 1996 onwards really worthwhile?
From the comments made by the DWAD team here and there, I don't think there is any question that they did not like the JNT years.
Ben Chatham says: As I noted in my review. Do I get props for that? Do I fuck.
So is it worthwhile to erase them? Certainly they seemed to think so. Whether anyone agrees with that decision or not is purely a matter of personal preference. Some think it was a good idea, others don't. Why is one side "right" and the other "wrong"?
Ben Chatham says: Well, let us look at what they did. A bunch of not-as-clever-or-talented amateurs who fail to understand huge parts of the show they porport to like decide to do the metatextual equivalent of running into the BBC and vandalizing it. The story is in effect a "Screw You!" to JNT. This story has therefore, no greater purpose than mocking the professionals - and missing the point it is far worse than anything the professionals ever did. THAT is why it is wrong.
But then, Kevin Rudd himself descends to save the day:
"Did they do anything with this idea? Given a clean slate with the Daleks, there were two other stories - both of which involved damaged, confused, solo Daleks struggling to do things and failing utterly. Nothing else. So, the rewrite of Dalek history was ultimately not utilized in any way. It might as well have not happened, and thus comes across as a childish attempt to ignore the parent program.
Yours, Comrade Ruddmiester."
Ben Chatham says: I knew I voted you in for a reason, Kevin.
Lighthope returns and... makes things as clear as we'd expect:
"One of the reasons we wanted to "change" Dalek history was to escape it. Like the Cybermen or any other long-used character, they had become bogged down by their own history. Note the use of the Cybermen in the BBC series. They went with an alternate-Earth Cybermen to avoid the pitfalls of having to cram new Cyberstories on Cybermen whose history we generally know all the way up to their extinction in Revenge of the Cybermen.
Instead of "alternate Daleks", we simply erased their history so we could go off in any direction without bumping into "but this episode contradicts this" or "that episode contradicts that". It helps to make things cleaner."
Ben Chatham says: I'll let Kevin handle this...
Kevin Rudd fights back with:
"No doubt, but this 'free reign' has been put to no use at all. Nothing else has been done with the Daleks. The 'rewriting history' thing might never have happened since it doesn't effect The Augury of Doom or Iron Legion. Why reset everything and then act like it was still the way it was? Defies all logic."
But The Chimera Virus still wants to focus this thread on something more important:
"'Big Kev' makes a good point... I smell conspiracy theories about to erupt from their volcanic domain...
I was not attacking Mr. Chatham on the grounds of his review of Empire, but all his reviews in general. Too much bashing, negativity, and cussing. Also, for all of you guys wondering about my story, there is a brief summary below.
Summary-
Piloting the TARDIS has never been easy for the Doctor. And now it's put him in his tightest spot yet! On Halloween in the year 3trillion, the TARDIS is in the way of the Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies, which are due to collide in 4 hours. The clock is ticking, the TARDIS needs repairing, and Moira's visiting her sister in 2019... With no outside help, can the Doctor get away in time? Or is this the end of the Doctor as we know him? Hopefully coming sometime soon..."
Ben Chatham says: ... give... me... strength...
Miles "Beacon of Sanity" Reid comes to the rescue
"Instead of "alternate Daleks", we simply erased their history so we could go off in any direction without bumping into "but this episode contradicts this" or "that episode contradicts that". It helps to make things cleaner.
Well, I still don't see it. I mean, after all, you have an entire Universe of history to base Dalek stories in and it isn't like the TV series itself really cared about Dalek-History or Continuity until we reached the 80s and suddenly everything had to fall into some kind of place. Does Day of the Daleks corrospond with Evil of the Daleks? What about the fact that the Daleks have been wiped out as a species apparantly three times in the original series (The Daleks, Evil of the Daleks, Remembrance of the Daleks) and still keep cropping up, if you have a Universe that spans several 'Billenia', then you can put the Daleks doing whatever you want whenever you want, they'll always be back. Same with the Cybermen, you can supposedly wipe 'em out, but in the end, they'll always be back."
Ben Chatham says: Day of the Daleks occurs after Evil of the Daleks. A scene cut from part four has the Gold Dalek taunting the Doctor by revealing they not only wiped out the Human Daleks, they've travelled back in time and fucked up the human race throughout history and he just made them stronger.
Lighthope sniffs in disdain before growling:
"Well, the BBC hasn't really done anything with the Cybermen that required them to come from an alternate universe, either. I suspect RTD did it for the same reason we altered Dalek history: to escape it."
Ben Chatham says: I'll let the PM field that one.
The Chimera Virus cackles insanely with:
"So basically if RTD wanted to bring back, oh, let's say, the Quarks as a 'recurring nemesis' like the Daleks or Cybermen are, then they got 'bogged down' in their history as well, he'd wipe the slate clean with some sort of 'mumbo jumbo' fictional 'dohickey' that are common in his stories? Is that about right?
Well, I think that alternate universe Cybermen were pretty stupid. We have perfectly good Cybermen than have better-looking faces in the base 'Whoniverse'!"
Ben Chatham says: Ah! So you agree with me that the resets were pointless? You agree! AHAHAHAHAHA!
Kevin Rudd sums up the feelings of all Australians with:
"Well, the BBC hasn't really done anything with the Cybermen that required them to come from an alternate universe, either.
Apart from the requirement to write out Rose in another universe with her friends and family that are alive there, as well as not contradicting the BF play that inspired the stories, leading into the Season 4 finale and Terrance Dicks' Made of Steel. Apart from that, no.
Besides, why use the BBC to justify your actions? I gathered the concensus was that the DWADs are superior in every way to the BBC efforts..."
Ben Chatham says: this is getting SO old.
Updated UPDATE:
I give up. I honestly give up. I wasn't expecting them all to go, "My God! He's right! We are crap!" but a KIND of reevaluation would have been nice. As the thread shows, they simply AREN'T INTERESTED. Unlike even Kaldor City, who are prepared to go twelve rounds until you collapse bleeding on the floor, these people simply shut down, and mindlessly repeat the "no it isn't" "that is wrong" "this is right" over and over again.
Banging your head against a brick wall would be more productive - either the wall would ultimately collpase, or else your skull would cave in. Either way, things would change. Not so here. They're already wandering off the thread to brag about how much they've been downloaded, podcast whatever... and my worst fears for these jumped-up, self-aggrandizing, talentless, close-minded pempsliders are confirmed.
They're not just beyond help, they will never want help.
So, I'll leave this evangelical bunch of zealots to wallow in their own delusions of adequacy, and maybe one day they'll notice the fact out of the twenty-five years they've been going less than a hundred people have ever actually LISTENED to their output... and those with a concept of value discarded them silently.
The DWADs and everyone involved can go rot in a black star.
"Jesus" "Christ" "God" "Hell" "Bloody" "Arse" "Ass" "Damn" and "Bastard".
But not "crap".
But what do those disturbed individuals behind the DWADs think of these reviews?
Well, judging from the open-access opinion forum, they're stunned into silence at the fact any sane person would dare criticize ANYTHING beyond the long wait between stories. The thread is named "Bad reviews???" with so many question marks, it sounds like an outraged Lady Bracknell. How dare ANYONE contradict them?!
First off in the thread, indeed the thread starter, is a dude who calls himself The Supreme Dalek, refers to himself in the third person and frequently acts like a Dalek. Not even Nick Briggs is that far gone...
"I noticed a lot of bad reviews appearing lately in the Review section of the DWAD website. And they're all from the same dude. Does he have a problem or something? I admit I didn't like Apollyon but Price of Paradise was GREAT! He certainly hates Dara. What's up with him?"
Ben Chatham says: Bad reviews? BAD reviews?! BAD?!? They're negative, yes, and not the mindless adoration spewed out from people with no concept of worth! TPOP sucked and the reasons I thought so were laid within - along with a rebuttal from the guide. What's up with me? Your lack of perception, that's what up with me, mofo.
Replying is a guy called James who is dubbed The Chimera Virus:
"Well, he's a cussing, stark-raving, oddly disturbing man who makes a point in the rudest way humanly possible. He makes a good point with some things, but mainly he's just looking for an excuse to b*tch about your guys' stories. Dara really doesn't sound that convincing of a teen."
Ben Chatham says: Cussing?! That's a completely false impression given by editorial bias. Stark-raving? YOU COME OVER HERE AND SAY THAT, I'LL SUCK THE MARROW FROM YOUR BONES! Oddly disturbing? Dunno where that came from. "Looking for an excuse to bitch", that's me. PITY YOU KEEP GIVING ME EXCUSES, HUH?
The Supreme Dalek shows off his staunch support of the DWADS and his horror at my reviews by... drifting completely off topic:
"I always thought Dara was fun. I liked her more than Christine and Moira."
Ben Chatham says: I give up. You're all beyond help.
The Chimera Virus scoffs some more tranquilizers before adding:
"I love Moira! She's just so... REFRESHING!!! She's a good match for the Doctor! Balancing out per se... Christine was OK, but she got a bit boring with all this ancient speak to the point it was very annoying. Your fee's up to 4 cents."
Ben Chatham says: Yes, Moira is the first decent female companion I've heard. Does this ruin my reputation as a woman-hating psycho? Please say it ain't so, coach! SAY IT AIN'T SO!
A newcomer Captain Patch arrives and shows the truly disturbing nature of the DWADs that these people, seemingly logical, reasonable, intelligent people who at first glance appear perfectly normal and sensible, are just as indoctrinated as the more openly loony members of the cult. Er, fanbase.
"About Mr. Chatham's reviews:
- He has an amazingly encyclopedic knowledge of things Dr. Who. To be able to recognize the sources of bits of incidental music, and to recall cliffhangers from the TV series and to relate them to those in the DWADs is really impressive.
- He clearly puts a lot of time and energy into his reviews. And he does make some interesting points. At least we don't have to ask him to clarify his opinions.
- I admit I don't understand *why* he puts so much time into his reviews. I'd venture to say he doesn't think highly of the DWADs, in general. I think they're just about the best thing since sliced bread, but my goodness, I have to admit, if I had enough time on my hands to write reviews as long and in-depth as he does, well, I'd probably use it for something else.
- I wish he'd be a little more considerate of the language he uses, and much less personal in some of his criticisms. It's fine to express one's opinion strongly, but there's a line beyond which you're just being mean. And he crosses that line, IMHO, with some regularity.
- What's he got against Chip, anyway? I mean, did Chip insult his dog or something? I think it's fair to say that Chip's voice is very recognizable, and he doesn't have the range that some other past and present actors working with the DWADs have; but I thought he was good and honestly, I miss his voice, along with several others that we haven't heard in some time.
- I think it says an amazing amount about Lighthope and the DWADs, that they'd post such negative reviews on their own site. Mr. Chatham's reviews are certainly coming from a different perspective than most of the other posted reviews, and one can hope that the DWAD cast and crew can use his insight to improve their show. Though I hope they do understand that, as they're already practically perfect in every way, they needn't change much.....
Regarding companions:
I tend to like whichever Doctor and companion I'm listening to at the moment...if you put a gun to my head and forced me to pick a favorite, I'd probably do a cool ninja move to disarm you. Hey, it's my post. I like both Dara and Christine, though I'll admit that both took a few stories before I really appreciated their characters. Moira, I liked from the start, but she's only had one story as solo companion, so it's going to take a few more stories before I can completely judge her character."
Ben Chatham says: you're the scariest of them all because you ALMOST make sense. Yes, I have time on my hands; yes, lighthope is either being an idiot or totally open-minded; if the DWADs are SOOO good, why don't more people review them; my issue with Chip is that he is a crap actor and these are my reviews; and what? None of you noticed how the sound effects, music and cliffhangers were being recycled? Have you ever actually WATCHED Doctor Who?
Captain Patch replies:
Why don't more people review them?
I think their absolute goodness is very intimidating to most potential reviewers.
Ben Chatham says: Superiority Complex Audio Dramas and their fans, ladies and gentlemen.
Captain Patch replies:
My issue with Chip is that he is a crap actor and these are my reviews
Sure, freedom of speech and all that; but Chip seems to have been singled out disproportionately.
Ben Chatham says: it is in total proportion to his acting. When he didn't suck (Backbone of the Night, parts of Radio 2000), I give him due credit.
Captain Patch replies:
None of you noticed how the sound effects, music and cliffhangers were being recycled? Have you ever actually WATCHED Doctor Who?
Yes to both. The music and sound effect reuse totally does not bother me. I can see, though, how that might be a bother to someone who was more aware of those aspects of the production.
Ben Chatham says: as you're the ONLY fan only group still using stock music rather than self-composed, the very least you can do is use appropriate music that doesn't clash with itself - Countdown to Armageddon, for example. Three episodes of above-decent music mix of Paddy Kingsland, then a random slab of Season 21. Ruins it all.
And finally:
A request...I am unapologetically a big fan of the DWADs (the one who "at first glance appear[ed] perfectly normal and sensible, but who turned out to be the scariest of them all! :-) ). I'd like to note that I'm *not* associated with the group in any official capacity; I'm just a fan. In a couple of your reviews, you've included some of my comments as "The Party Line", which I think is a little misleading, as it implies an official relationship with the group that doesn't exist. I have no problem being quoted (flattered, actually) but I'd appreciate it if you'd either change the title of the section or otherwise note that my comments represent only myself.
Ben Chatham says: The Party Line is as it implies, taken from the horse's mouth - the Official DWAD handbooks, ostensibly written by Charles Danbee (D Segal and J Coburn editions). Critiquing anything else would defeat the whole point of the reviews.
Where was I? Oh yes.
Will opinion be divided now the (extremely positive) review of The Backbone of Night is up on their site? Will they even bother to read it? Will Lighthope itself descend to the thread to explain why the reviews are up, why there are so many asterixes (after all, that's DEFINITELY his fault) and point these baffled and bewildered buffoons in the basic direction Ben's belated blog? (answered that one)
Further news as events warrant.
...
So don't expect much.
UPDATE: How wrong I was! How WRONG I was! It seems that by the blind intervention of an angry God, it's time for "Ben Chatham" to get the "YOA treatment of unfair analysis and criticism"! I am on the recieving end! OH GLORIUS EVIL!! FROM HELL'S DARK HEART I STAB AT THEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
BEN CHATHAM'S EMPIRE OF THE DALEKS REVIEW by The Supreme Dalek
Okay, I am getting a little tired of this persons reviews. I know everyone has their own opinion, but these aren't reviews, they're just excuses to bash the program. Since he's so thorough at dissecting Doctor Who, let's deconstruct his review and see if it is actually worth paying any attention to.
Mark finally has enough of this crap and shacks up with a bimbo.
Gee, it only took five sentences for him to start off with the trash talk. It would be one thing if Serena was actually a bimbo, but her character wasn't anything that could even resemble that.
BC says: it's called humor. And "trash talk"? What are you? A southern baptist or something?
The producers of the DWADs were of the firm opinion that Doctor Who had gone to dogs when JNT took over, in regards to the ‘weakening’ the Master and the Daleks.
Actually, a lot of people were of that opinion. The DWADs weren't exactly alone in that regard.
BC says: actually, they were for reasons outlined in the article. Besides, is there anything in that sentence that is inaccurate? Or offensive? No, bitch. They weren't.
Anyone who has seen Remembrance of the Daleks will remember it featured flying Daleks tackling a whole army single handed
And anyone who has seen Remembrance of the Daleks will also remember Daleks being destroyed by simple bullets and a baseball bat! (Admittedly a baseball bat affected by the Hand of Omega.) And who could forget that wonderfully ridiculous scene where a Dalek destroys itself by simply being talked to death?! Yeah, those were really powerful Daleks! Ooh, I'm scared.
BC says: "simple bullets"? What part of "anti-tank rockets aimed at the weakest point of Daleks as established by Terry Nation itself" don't you get, brain donor? And since you admitted you were being a pratt about complaining about the baseball bat, we're left with a Dalek going nuts when it realizes it has lost and is the last of its kind. I also note that Daleks in Empire blew themselves up simply because they let the Doctor win!
Rather than using their own nuclear strength, they fire asteroids at Earth (a tactic made famous in Babylon Five)
Actually, IIRC, that was made famous by Starblazers. It was also a theme used in Without Warning and Frontios.
BC says: oh no! That means my entire argument is pointless! Woe is me!
which simply leaves the planet rendered a cold rubble-filled rock full of embittered humans – and making any mineral resources far harder to exploit.
Nuking a planet has the unfortunate effect of wiping out the population. If you want some slave labor, an asteroid attack seems like a reasonable weapon to deploy.
BC says: except they don't want slave labor, dumbass.
They are shown to be lazy rather than cunning (hoping the Doctor will unite the human survivors for them to exterminate)
I have no idea what he is talking about here.
BC says: it show, baby, it shows.
slow on the uptake (having to interrogate prisoners to confirm patently obvious facts)
I didn't come across with that impression.
BC says: what? They find a guy in a UNIT uniform and interrogate him to find out if he's from UNIT! How dumb is that?
and prone to panicking
Daleks have always done this.
BC says: what, in those rubbish JNT stories you despise? How then does Empire improve them?
They also are destroyed with ease
When?
BC says: WHEN? Have you actually LISTENED to the thing? When Mark shoots one with a hand-phase and it explodes for a start...
Coupled with the poor dialogue, terrible voices and models, this story arguably weakens the Daleks more than the JNT era ever could.
Sometimes you have to wonder if he even listened to the same story everyone else did.
BC says: seriously, that would explain a lot. But also the fact you're a bunch of zealots with pronoid delusions.
The plot itself is not particularly original – the Daleks conquering Earth was done before in The Dalek Invasion of Earth
And a hundred thousand other stories. What I liked is that they had conquered MODERN DAY Earth. That was a great twist!
BC says: a twist? You mean the twist stolen from Day of the Daleks?
The idea that UNIT survived the destruction of humanity is ludicrous, unless they used their know-how to escape the massacre
That seems imminently logical actually. There are always military survivors during a war.
BC says: so UNIT saved their own asses rather than say, protecting the Earth?
There are some redeeming features – with Mark’s romance with Serena being surprisingly credible,
I did enjoy the romance. It certainly was something that is unexpected from someone like Mark Triyad.
BC says: so what's the problem? Why single that out when you agree with it?
This story’s strengths are smothered by the roll call of anniversary elements (Daleks, UNIT, Mark’s departure) and ultimately all it does is cancel out Skaro’s destruction in Remembrance of the Daleks.
My understanding is that it wiped out Dalek history from 1996 onward.
BC says: and that means WHAT? Apart from suggestion that most of the TV series isn't canon any more, does this do any good? Do we see any of this
[Dara goes] into denial, insisting she’d have been better off staying with her friends and family (oh, if ONLY!)
He's got some grudge against every female companion in the series. He hates both Dara and Christine. I wonder what he thinks of Moira.
BC says: I like her actually, n00b.... hang on, what makes you think I hate Christine, none of my reviews of her are up yet!
The Daleks can’t even pronounce “Exterminate” properly.
I guess English must not be Ben Chatham's first language.
BC says: Ooh, deep. I mean, writing all that shows that English isn't my second language.
And the cast can’t pronounce “Daleks” properly
Huh?!
BC says: It's DAR-LEX not DAYL-EX! Do you WATCH any TV episodes, or just blot out the screams of your parents' despair with endless DWAD tapes?
The idea that an asteroid strike could wipe out all but a handful of humans that just happen to be UNIT troops who just happen to know all about the Doctor and just happen to be able to cover his escape as he learns all the info they just happen to have... This is so unlikely it’s starting to sting.
Who said UNIT were the only survivors? They were the only ones the story delt with because they wanted to use a traditional Doctor Who Good Guy. Seeing the usual cleancut UNIT reduced to the shocking state they were in was a very good idea. It wouldn't nearly have had the same effect if it were just a bunch of Joes they picked up off the street.
BC says: Cleancut? Chrichton shouts a bit. You call that "shocking"? What colour is the sky in your world? Besides, Serena's story is far more effective than a bunch of soldiers with bullseyes on their faces. "Traditional Good Guy"? My reasons for dismissing Chrichton are the same as under Dark Dreams - he's a one-joke character from The Five Doctors, not someone to seriously carry on UNIT. Why didn't you go for Bambera, huh?
Why do the Daleks keep offering the Doctor a chance to surrender? Why not just kill him?
Drama? Why doesn't any enemy of the Doctor's just lock him in front of a gun that goes off every ten minutes to wipe out all of his regenerations? Besides, didn't they need the Doctor for something?
BC says: "Drama?" THAT is the best you can do? As I noted, dumbo, they DIDN'T need the Doctor. The whole story is about them conquering time, so they THEN ask the Doctor to have exclusive access to their machinery for no reason? Christ, wake up!
So, a convicted murderer, rapist and pedophile spends three minutes with the Doctor and suddenly sacrifices himself to protect the schoolgirl he would have, in another history, raped without a thought? Since he dies without affecting the plot, why is he in the second half at all?!?
Sometimes the things this guy says are so stupid you just want to bang your head against a wall.
BC says: Took the words out of my mouth.
It's called DRAMA!
BC says: It's called MINDLESS SENSATIONALISM WITH AN UNCONTROLLABLE GOD COMPLEX!
The past Supreme Dalek orders its future self to commit suicide for failing to stop the Doctor... why not blow itself up in the present and prevent that failure from happening?
Um...because if he blows himself up then they can't conquer the Earth. Duh! (See, you can see this stupidity is really starting to irritate me.)
BC says: My point is, moron, the Dalek kills itself for a failure that's not going to happen in the past. Why? If you're going to be that stupid, blow yourself up now, have a competent commander take over and stop the failure!
Sickeningly arrogant, that summary would be ludicrous even if Empire of the Daleks was actually any good.
I will admit that his personal opinion is his personal opinion and if he is bound and determined to hate it, then that is his pergoative. But at least have some VALID reasons to hate it and not just made up, ignorant nonsense.
BC says: It's too late for you. They've brainwashed you. At least I gave reasons to hate it. You give nothing to like it.
Big Finish would laugh themselves to death if they heard both the story AND the party line.
Big Finish WISHES they could write stuff this good.
BC says: AHAHAHAHAHA! Haha! Ha! Oh, hahahahaha! AHAhhaha! HAHAh! Oh, no, please, stop, don't... AHAHAHAH! HAHAHA! HA! HA! HA! BWAHAHAHAHAH! Oh, that's priceless! A bunch of talentless American snobs with zero relevance say a derivate piece of crap (BOTH of whose writers quit soon after) up against an internationally successful business winning plaudits from professional reviewers! MY RIBS! OH, MAN! OHAHAHAHAHAHA! Spara, your ravings are oh-so-reasonable! HAHAHAHAH! OHHAHHAHHA! CAN'T BREATHE! CANNOT BREEATHE! HAHAHAHAHAHA! BASTARDS... TRY TO KILL ME! OH! CLASSIC! HAHAHA! Hahahahahaha! Ha! HA!!!! HAHAHHhahahahahahahah! Ah...
I'm sorry, but I just don't take this guy seriously. I'm not going to get all bent out of shape like that other thread and demand that Mr. Chatham write better stuff if he thinks he knows so much. But at least have some intelligence behind your opinions and not just mindless, zero-thought bashing.
BC says: That review had more work put into it than any other one - and somehow, a guy who refers to himself in the third person as a fictional alien robot commander I find hard to take seriously. I don't like it, I said why I don't like it, and I kinda hoped for a clue for why the DWADs think they're so good. I can only assume you lot don't get out much. If at ALL.
The Supreme Dalek
BC says: HAHAH! Oh, he's set me off again!
Oh, man. Someone should post this on OG to see how many die from a Monty Python style "funniest joke in the world" type chaos!
Please, DWADers! Respond! Agree! I haven't laughed so much since Dylan Moran's Monster!
UPDATE: And they have...
The Chimera Virus only took three days to come up with this truly Wildean reposit:
"I haven't actually heard Empire but just from reading this I know I'm going to start listening to it after posting this. BTW, Ben Chatham, if you're reading this, go f*ck yourself you turd. Colorful language supplied by-James' Colorful Language Warehouse! Remember, if it's not James', it's not colorful!"
Ben Chatham says: Wow. Slag me off for criticizing something you haven't even bothered to listen to. My life suddenly has no meaning.
At this point Lighthope himself intervenes and... and...
"No personal attacks please. Everyone is entitled to their opinion."
This prompts a true Rob Shearman character assassination from The Chimera Virus:
"Sorry, but that's how I feel! But seriously, sorry about posting it. I'm in the middle of thinking up a good summary for this one story I'm thinking of submitting and deciding between two titles for it.What do you think? Collision Course or Galactic Collision Course?"
Ben Chatham says: Oh, no, start waffling about yourself, there's only a whole section of the forum created for you to do that, but clog up MY thread with your vacuous emissions. Which title I prefer? You mean, there's a difference?
Captain Patch dives into the fray:
"The former. Crisper. IMHO"
Ben Chatham says: et tu, CP? I suppose saying that Big Finish thought that title was crap and never used it for Spare Parts isn't worth mentioning in this convo?
The Chimera Virus fights back with:
"Crisper? What does crisper mean in that context?"
Ben Chatham says: well, I'd tell you but apparently English isn't my first language. WHAT DO YOU BLOODY RECKON IT MEANS?!
Caption Patch patiently explains himself to the idiot with:
"Sorry for the confusion. It means...more punch, more sleekness, more energy. "Collision Course"...nice alliteration, very "active". Putting the "Galactic" in front of it just doesn't have the same "oomph" to it. And no, I can't define "oomph" I'd be interesting in what actual writers have to say about this..."
Ben Chatham says: dude, you need new friends.
Some dude who might be a writer called drewshi chips in with:
"I'd have to see how the title works in the context of the story, but Collision Course does sound better."
Ben Chatham says: and so the DWADs forget that their quality was ever questioned. The denial continues.
At this point, a strangely intelligent and wise being known as Miles "Balls of Steel" Reid brings sanity to the world:
"Hey, everyone has the right to their own opinion. Why attack him because his views on the story differ from yours?
Also, a few statements for the 'Supreme Dalek'
1- Why is the Daleks invading Modern-Day Earth such a twist? It is a series about time travel (and seeing how advanced London apparantly wasn't in 'Dalek Invasion of the Earth', it pretty much has been done.) and such things have the potential to happen.
2- Does his use of Babylon 5 as making 'Asteroid Strikes famous' actually matter? I mean, honestly, the truth is that more people who will listen to Empire of the Daleks' will think 'Babylon 5' than the first season of 'Space Battleship Yamato' considering that Star Blazers/Space Battleship Yamato is really only well known to the hardcore or Old School Anime Fans. Anyway, the Devastation of Narn is a fantastic scene.
3- Having read Mr.Chatham's reviews in their original form and spoken to him about them. I know that a lot of the language censored from the reviews available on the site is incredibly minor and to be honest, had no point to be censored. I mean, blanking out 'hell' and 'damn'... it's kinda silly, really.
4- Also, why use this story to bring back Skaro? Why bring back Skaro? Just because it turned up in the opening credits of the TVM and had been destroyed in the last Dalek story of the classic season... which is a series about Time travel and could just easily have been Skaro before its destruction. Is erasing Dalek history from 1996 onwards really worthwhile? I mean, are we talking in terms of 'Dalek stories released after 1996' in the real world (like Big Finish CDs, BBC Books and DWM comic strips) or in the Universe of Doctor Who... which would actually render all Dalek stories erased if you think about it."
Ben Chatham says: nuff said.
The Supreme Dalek however is having none of this:
If I can respond...
Why is the Daleks invading Modern-Day Earth such a twist? It is a series about time travel (and seeing how advanced London apparantly wasn't in 'Dalek Invasion of the Earth', it pretty much has been done.) and such things have the potential to happen.
I never saw Dalek Invasion of Earth so I can't really appreciate the connection. I just felt it was a nice twist that, rather than some future Earth being changed, it was essentially MY Earth. That I could look out my window and suddenly see Daleks rolling down the street.
Ben Chatham says: OK. So you believe that Empire of the Daleks is perfect because it rips off a story you haven't seen. And a movie you haven't seen. And, I've listened to Empire, there's no "Daleks in suburbia" just "Daleks in bombed out ruins" which could be any story... You freak.
Does his use of Babylon 5 as making 'Asteroid Strikes famous' actually matter? I mean, honestly, the truth is that more people who will listen to Empire of the Daleks' will think 'Babylon 5' than the first season of 'Space Battleship Yamato' considering that Star Blazers/Space Battleship Yamato is really only well known to the hardcore or Old School Anime Fans.
It doesn't matter except that he makes it a big deal.
Ben Chatham says: Actually that was one of the few moments in the review I was being unbiased. I mean, a Doctor Who story ripping some other show/film/book off? Could I criticize that and sleep at night?
He goes to great (and sometimes encyclopedic) lengths to say "this was done in such and such Doctor Who episode", clearly pointing out how unworthy the DWADs are because they are unoriginal when in fact DW itself is unoriginal.
Ben Chatham says: The point I was making was that Empire was not a good story, because the one decent-non-Who rip off it used makes no sense. They want Earth's minerals. They want slaves. So they take the one method that makes getting both incredibly difficult. It's a stupid plan. The DWADs are unworthy of saying EOTD is the best thing ever. Look, is there someone who looks after you I can talk to? Someone with a brain?
Is erasing Dalek history from 1996 onwards really worthwhile?
From the comments made by the DWAD team here and there, I don't think there is any question that they did not like the JNT years.
Ben Chatham says: As I noted in my review. Do I get props for that? Do I fuck.
So is it worthwhile to erase them? Certainly they seemed to think so. Whether anyone agrees with that decision or not is purely a matter of personal preference. Some think it was a good idea, others don't. Why is one side "right" and the other "wrong"?
Ben Chatham says: Well, let us look at what they did. A bunch of not-as-clever-or-talented amateurs who fail to understand huge parts of the show they porport to like decide to do the metatextual equivalent of running into the BBC and vandalizing it. The story is in effect a "Screw You!" to JNT. This story has therefore, no greater purpose than mocking the professionals - and missing the point it is far worse than anything the professionals ever did. THAT is why it is wrong.
But then, Kevin Rudd himself descends to save the day:
"Did they do anything with this idea? Given a clean slate with the Daleks, there were two other stories - both of which involved damaged, confused, solo Daleks struggling to do things and failing utterly. Nothing else. So, the rewrite of Dalek history was ultimately not utilized in any way. It might as well have not happened, and thus comes across as a childish attempt to ignore the parent program.
Yours, Comrade Ruddmiester."
Ben Chatham says: I knew I voted you in for a reason, Kevin.
Lighthope returns and... makes things as clear as we'd expect:
"One of the reasons we wanted to "change" Dalek history was to escape it. Like the Cybermen or any other long-used character, they had become bogged down by their own history. Note the use of the Cybermen in the BBC series. They went with an alternate-Earth Cybermen to avoid the pitfalls of having to cram new Cyberstories on Cybermen whose history we generally know all the way up to their extinction in Revenge of the Cybermen.
Instead of "alternate Daleks", we simply erased their history so we could go off in any direction without bumping into "but this episode contradicts this" or "that episode contradicts that". It helps to make things cleaner."
Ben Chatham says: I'll let Kevin handle this...
Kevin Rudd fights back with:
"No doubt, but this 'free reign' has been put to no use at all. Nothing else has been done with the Daleks. The 'rewriting history' thing might never have happened since it doesn't effect The Augury of Doom or Iron Legion. Why reset everything and then act like it was still the way it was? Defies all logic."
But The Chimera Virus still wants to focus this thread on something more important:
"'Big Kev' makes a good point... I smell conspiracy theories about to erupt from their volcanic domain...
I was not attacking Mr. Chatham on the grounds of his review of Empire, but all his reviews in general. Too much bashing, negativity, and cussing. Also, for all of you guys wondering about my story, there is a brief summary below.
Summary-
Piloting the TARDIS has never been easy for the Doctor. And now it's put him in his tightest spot yet! On Halloween in the year 3trillion, the TARDIS is in the way of the Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies, which are due to collide in 4 hours. The clock is ticking, the TARDIS needs repairing, and Moira's visiting her sister in 2019... With no outside help, can the Doctor get away in time? Or is this the end of the Doctor as we know him? Hopefully coming sometime soon..."
Ben Chatham says: ... give... me... strength...
Miles "Beacon of Sanity" Reid comes to the rescue
"Instead of "alternate Daleks", we simply erased their history so we could go off in any direction without bumping into "but this episode contradicts this" or "that episode contradicts that". It helps to make things cleaner.
Well, I still don't see it. I mean, after all, you have an entire Universe of history to base Dalek stories in and it isn't like the TV series itself really cared about Dalek-History or Continuity until we reached the 80s and suddenly everything had to fall into some kind of place. Does Day of the Daleks corrospond with Evil of the Daleks? What about the fact that the Daleks have been wiped out as a species apparantly three times in the original series (The Daleks, Evil of the Daleks, Remembrance of the Daleks) and still keep cropping up, if you have a Universe that spans several 'Billenia', then you can put the Daleks doing whatever you want whenever you want, they'll always be back. Same with the Cybermen, you can supposedly wipe 'em out, but in the end, they'll always be back."
Ben Chatham says: Day of the Daleks occurs after Evil of the Daleks. A scene cut from part four has the Gold Dalek taunting the Doctor by revealing they not only wiped out the Human Daleks, they've travelled back in time and fucked up the human race throughout history and he just made them stronger.
Lighthope sniffs in disdain before growling:
"Well, the BBC hasn't really done anything with the Cybermen that required them to come from an alternate universe, either. I suspect RTD did it for the same reason we altered Dalek history: to escape it."
Ben Chatham says: I'll let the PM field that one.
The Chimera Virus cackles insanely with:
"So basically if RTD wanted to bring back, oh, let's say, the Quarks as a 'recurring nemesis' like the Daleks or Cybermen are, then they got 'bogged down' in their history as well, he'd wipe the slate clean with some sort of 'mumbo jumbo' fictional 'dohickey' that are common in his stories? Is that about right?
Well, I think that alternate universe Cybermen were pretty stupid. We have perfectly good Cybermen than have better-looking faces in the base 'Whoniverse'!"
Ben Chatham says: Ah! So you agree with me that the resets were pointless? You agree! AHAHAHAHAHA!
Kevin Rudd sums up the feelings of all Australians with:
"Well, the BBC hasn't really done anything with the Cybermen that required them to come from an alternate universe, either.
Apart from the requirement to write out Rose in another universe with her friends and family that are alive there, as well as not contradicting the BF play that inspired the stories, leading into the Season 4 finale and Terrance Dicks' Made of Steel. Apart from that, no.
Besides, why use the BBC to justify your actions? I gathered the concensus was that the DWADs are superior in every way to the BBC efforts..."
Ben Chatham says: this is getting SO old.
Updated UPDATE:
I give up. I honestly give up. I wasn't expecting them all to go, "My God! He's right! We are crap!" but a KIND of reevaluation would have been nice. As the thread shows, they simply AREN'T INTERESTED. Unlike even Kaldor City, who are prepared to go twelve rounds until you collapse bleeding on the floor, these people simply shut down, and mindlessly repeat the "no it isn't" "that is wrong" "this is right" over and over again.
Banging your head against a brick wall would be more productive - either the wall would ultimately collpase, or else your skull would cave in. Either way, things would change. Not so here. They're already wandering off the thread to brag about how much they've been downloaded, podcast whatever... and my worst fears for these jumped-up, self-aggrandizing, talentless, close-minded pempsliders are confirmed.
They're not just beyond help, they will never want help.
So, I'll leave this evangelical bunch of zealots to wallow in their own delusions of adequacy, and maybe one day they'll notice the fact out of the twenty-five years they've been going less than a hundred people have ever actually LISTENED to their output... and those with a concept of value discarded them silently.
The DWADs and everyone involved can go rot in a black star.
